A one-time transfer of drone technology from Ukraine is not possible

Poland’s Deputy Minister of Defence Cezary Tomczyk stated recently that Ukraine had refused to transfer technologies for military drones production to Poland, for which there was supposedly previous bilateral agreement. This statement was made during Tomczyk's interview on the Polish radio station Radio Zet. Answering a journalist's question about the supposed transfer of MIG-29 jets from Poland to Ukraine, which the two parties had been negotiating previously, Tomczyk said it had not happened because Ukraine refused to give Poland the drone technology that interests the country. "The dialogue between Poland and Ukraine is ongoing. The Poles have clearly said: as we are developing our own capabilities in the drone sector, we would like to use Ukrainian capabilities as well, and we will transfer the equipment [MIG-29 aircraft] if this matter is resolved. In this sense, nothing has changed, and this matter has not been resolved," stated Tomczyk.

This statement by the Polish deputy minister sparked a fierce discussion in the Polish media sphere and only added to the mounting controversies in Polish-Ukrainian relations. New Eastern Europe spoke with Vasyl Honcharuk, chairman of ARMADA, the Association of Manufacturers of Unmanned Systems and Associated Technologies, about the possible causes of the Polish-Ukrainian drone dispute.

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KATERYNA PRYSHCHEPA: Do you know what technical solutions the Polish side would like to receive from Ukraine?

VASYL HONCHARUK: Let's proceed in order. To my knowledge the issue of technology transfer was not raised at all in Polish-Ukrainian negotiations. The negotiations were held concerning the joint production of drones. If you remember, a few months ago, the prime ministers of Ukraine and Poland, Yulia Svyrydenko and Donald Tusk, talked about bilateral cooperation in production. It was named the “Drone Armada” project which was announced publicly. For this project, Poland was to provide funding to develop facilities for common production. And as of now, I haven’t heard of any steps taken by the Polish side to ensure the funding of this project.

 

But how well informed are you about the bilateral negotiations regarding the production and export of drones? Perhaps such a promise from the Ukrainian side was made at one of the intergovernmental meetings at which you were not present?

Of course, I am not present at all meetings of government officials, but we are present at some of the meetings and we are in contact with representatives of the Ministry of Defence and the President's Office and are informed about the talks.

We also have to see the difference between technology transfer and technology export. Ukraine is talking with our partners about technology export – there is a certain procedure for this. There was an important step on the part of Ukraine in this area. The president signed agreements with 28 countries, including Poland, which provide for the creation of joint ventures for the production of drones on the territory of these countries. In several countries – the Czech Republic, France, Germany and Denmark – there is already active production of drones in partnership with Ukrainian companies under the scheme established by the security agreements. Poland did not use this instrument. We have not received any concrete proposals or questions from them. We as an association have also signed a cooperation agreement with the Polish drone manufacturers association. But there haven’t been any practical  steps yet.

Which other representatives of the Polish side did you communicate with?

We have friendly, direct relations with the Polish Embassy in Ukraine, with representatives of the Ministry of Defence, the Ministry of Economy, and the Investment Agency. They stated that they are not against working with Ukrainian manufacturers, but the last time these conversations took place was about four months ago. We said then: let's work out some kind of joint roadmap regarding the legal requirement fulfilment, so both sides can coordinate these cooperation procedures. There were direct conversations, there were even joint meetings. But we received no proposals from the Polish side in the end.

 

What are the legal requirements on Ukraine’s side for Ukrainian companies that would like to establish production facilities in other countries?

A company must apply to government authorities to verify whether a security agreement has been signed with the country where the production is planned to be deployed. The company must also agree to comply with export duties.

What sort of an export duty?

This is the share of products (drones) manufactured by a foreign joint venture established with the participation of a Ukrainian company, which will be transferred free of charge to the Ukrainian army. This is the benefit for our state, which gives consent to production abroad. According to these requirements, at least ten per cent of the manufactured products must be transferred to be used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

How are agreements to open production abroad usually reached? Do Ukrainian companies approach potential partners or vice versa?

It could be either way. This depends on the prospective partners in this common enterprise negotiaons.

If European companies are interested in joint production on their territory, who do they turn to – specific Ukrainian manufacturers or associations?

Mostly, they make initial contact through an association to obtain an expert assessment of the company and recommendations regarding regarding the possible partners for the interested compnaies.

Coming back to Poland. You mentioned that it has its own association of UV (unmanned vehicles) manufacturers. And we know that UV production has existed in Poland for several years. So what technologies would Poland expect from Ukraine if the country has its own products?

You mean that drone technology is too broad a term.

Yes. What specifically might be of interest to the Polish side?

Specifically, the technology includes three key elements: first is the specification of what components the drone consists of; the second is the technological map, that is, the description in what order the drone is assembled, what parts connect to others, how they are soldered, and so on; and the third element is the software itself. The competitive advantage of Ukrainian drone manufacturers is that we know how to arrange the components best, how to assemble them most efficiently. Ukrainian engineers have also designed custom components specifically for the drones and some of them are produced in Ukraine. And we have tested successful software solutions that are encrypted, and cannot be simply copied. That is, if someone takes a photo of a drone and makes a device that looks the same, it doesn't mean that it will work with the same effectiveness.

In Ukraine the technologies of unmanned vehicles are developing very quickly due to the ongoing war, and significant changes occur every three to six months on average. Therefore, even if you transfer the documentation that is relevant today to a third party, it will remain relevant only for a certain period of time. So without contact with our side, these technologies will not remain as effective after a while. That is why we propose setting up production, since we work under real life conditions, and we have first-hand experience and information. We can update the technology and documentation so that these products remain effective in the future. But in order for this joint production to start, someone from the Polish side must come up with a proposal.

To make sure that I understood correctly. There were no practical steps on the Polish side in the area of creating joint production?

I would put it this way: there were no public steps. Maybe there were some backroom conversations. We can't know everything. Instead, unfortunately, there have been some unfriendly moves from the Polish side concerning our drone manufacturers. A few days ago, the largest European exhibition of drone manufacturers, Eurosatory, opened in France, where Ukrainian companies also participate. And unfortunately, the Polish officials held up the models of Ukrainian manufacturers products and were holding it for a long time.

Were these exactly the models without electronics?

Yes. These were not operational drones. These were actually 3D printed like children's toys, the outer form. The manufacturers who transported these models complied with all Ukrainian legislation and did not transport anything sensitive across the border. They were not exporting any technologies.

But representatives of the Polish border services blocked them on principle. They seized them, and held for a long time. This is despite the fact that the same type mock-ups of other manufacturers had successfully passed through the borders with other countries.

Vasyl Honcharuk is the chairman of ARMADA, the Association of Manufacturers of Unmanned Systems and Associated Technologies in Ukraine.

Kateryna Pryshchepa is a Ukrainian journalist and a contributing editor with New Eastern Europe.